Talk:Kaneko Fist: Sixty-Four Kicks
Assuming the distance from the ground to one's opponent, through a kick, is roughly the length of the leg, so let's say for somebody six feet tall, let's round it to three feet of distance, which means that is roughly 5.6 x 10^-4 miles, and then consider that 150 mph in five seconds, a distance of 0.2083 miles would be covered, that means you'd be pulling off, not 64 kicks in five seconds, but... well over thousands, if not tens of thousands, of kicks in that amount of time, which is far outside the scope of anything a human being would be capable of doing (even in the Naruto world); since being able to pull off a kicking speed that fast, assuming the user even has the stamina to do it, let alone for five full seconds, that means they'd be capable of running across the entire Shinobi continent fifty times over. And yeah, that's just silly. Please rectify this. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 23:26, November 23, 2014 (UTC) It said, "It is rumored that each kick has enough power to easily crack a boulder and the speed of each kick is rumored to be 150 mph." Kasumi12346 (talk)Kasumi12346 :And my crotch is rumored to be harboring pixies of a magical nature carrying ice cream cones. Doesn't mean there really are. When you use actual numbers and you use the wrong calculations, it just adds to the unrealistic element of your page. The point is to try to be as grounded and rooted in realism as possible, so it's simply best to avoid using numbers to try and prove how amazing your technique is. I'm not trying to pick on you. This is coming from the guy that used to create a character whose running speed was "3,453,864 miles per second" and that's worlds more ridiculous than what you had here. But I had to learn that it was wrong, and so too do you. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 15:20, November 24, 2014 (UTC) ::Strange objection seeing as the fastest kick on record in real life as of 2010 is by Frank Dux at around 70 MPH. Positing a 150 MPH kick for superhuman beings that move so fast that they disappear from sight is not only reasonable it's to be expected. Not only that the logic that you use to claim he'd be capable of thousands of kicks, according to the info in the article originally presented, is specious at best. You essentially present a straw man. It doesn't take into account any preparation or re-positioning he'd need to do to perform each kick. Nor does it take into account durability as a limiting factor. You mention stamina, but only in your straw man version. He may not have the stamina for thousands of kick, but that says absolutely nothing about whether he has the stamina for 64 kicks. Stamina would be limiting factor that agrees with his original proposition, not evidence for your straw man argument. Given that Hyūgas, who aren't anywhere near the top of the speed food chain, perform sixty four palms in a similar amount of time there is absolutely nothing wrong with his original conception. CyberianGinseng 20:00, November 24, 2014 (UTC) Uh... there actually is a point to my objection, but I suppose in your rambling, you hadn't noticed that you basically proved my point. This is not one kick being performed at 150 mph, this is 64 kicks done in five seconds, 150 mph. Not only is this math wrong, but as you said yourself, it does not account for pulling the foot back, stretching out the leg, and so on; which would only add resistance and make the feat all the more impossible. My argument mentions stamina only because that alone was enough to debunk the original premise, let alone all the other inconsistencies. And like I said once before, even if ANY of the original premise was possible, the math was still incorrect, and if she is not going to use the right math, she is better off not using numbers at all. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 20:13, November 24, 2014 (UTC) I already changed it. Kasumi12346 (talk)Kasumi12346 :That's fine Kasumi. I was just pointing out his objection was senseless. Also, what you changed it to is probably slower than the average black belt can sidekick in real life multiple times (although he wouldn't have the stamina to do all 64) so it makes no sense. :Sorry, Sei. You're changing your argument. First you claimed with the info he provided his character could kick thousands of times. This is simply a straw man so I won't address it further. Now you claim that the math doesn't work for 64 times at 150 miles an hour a piece. I'm not going to bother going into a calculation. Instead I'm going to look at what's humanly possible in real life and extrapolate from what we've already seen ninjas do in the manga. In a little over 6 seconds this guy manages 10 round house kicks, the last of which reverses direction. :Now he picks up some time using momentum going into the next kick, even though he's moving a greater distance. So let us examine multiple side kicks as depicted in the article. This man pulls off 11 side kicks in around 5 seconds. No, this guy isn't very impressive. No, he's not kicking against resistance. No, he's not moving anywhere near 150 miles an hour on each kick. And no, he's not even moving at the world record 70 mph on any of his kicks. But that doesn't exactly work in your favor. So a magical shinobi would have to move around 6 times his speed with many times his stamina to pull off such an unimpressive feat (in the Naruto world) of 64 kicks in five seconds. :How much faster than that have ninjas been depicted in the manga to move? This man cannot vanish from sight even if he were moving 10 times faster than he does here. The sustained operating speed at which Kishi regularly depicts jōnin moving easily matches or exceeds the speed you claim is impossible. Part one fully weighted Lee with no gates easily pulls this off. :I'll leave it at that since the author is settled on the matter. --CyberianGinseng 23:12, November 24, 2014 (UTC) I like how you decided to scour the web for youtube examples. Nice that you put so much effort in your arguments. Sorry that all of your dedication was for naught though. Now, once again, you seem to be ignoring actual facts for what is convenient for you, and I don't blame you for that. It is common for people to ignore certain aspects of a person's argument and target only some parts, knowing that as long as they carry themselves confidently enough, nobody will notice that skip. Sorry to say, you will not find such a weak opponent in me. I am not "changing" my argument. While not explicitly stated, I made it clear that her math on the matter was incorrect; but perhaps some people need to be spoon-fed things without being able to infer it for themselves. Anyways, that's outside the realm of this situation. For all of your beautiful research, I don't see any timers anywhere. Do you? In that example of the eleven side kicks in less than eight seconds or so. Furthermore, this 70 mph kick, was this conducted repeatedly? Say, were five kicks done in a row, all reaching 70 mph? Anybody with a basic understanding of physics (or... logical reasoning for that matter) knows that continuous motion like that would slowly decrease the speed with such repetitive motion. Each succeeding kick after that first "70 mph kick" (if that was the fastest their body would be able to reach at that instant) would be far lower in speed, due to both mortal stamina and a persistent existence of air resistance and drag forces. Hell, physics isn't even necessary. Anybody with a basic understanding of either martial arts or body kinetics would know that much. Unless Rock Lee or Kaneko are gods that are not subject to air resistance, mortal stamina, or anything like that, they would not be able to repeatedly burst their leg into 150 mph for sixty-four repeated kicks; not unless they had to slow down, place their foot back at the starting spot, turn their body back to its original positioning, prompting for the same circumstances to exist once again, allowing the same speed to be reached once again. There's no way in hell 64 kicks would be able to be conducted at a speed that high, repeatedly, in the time span of five seconds. And that's not even the entire issue! 64 kicks conducted in 5 seconds is not 150 mph, no matter how much you want to debate the possibilities of kicking 64 times, with each kick magically and instantaneously jumping into 150 mph without taking the time to pick up speed (since, I know it might come as a news flash to you, but we actually live in a world of air resistance and friction, my friend; not the theoretical frictionless world of a high school physics student's math problem), sixty four times, continuously for five full seconds. The very idea of it twists the mathematics and scientific logic to such an extent that it disgusts me that you are actually still supporting it. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 00:51, November 25, 2014 (UTC) I mean, look at how many punches Guy delivered while hitting Kisame with Morning Peacock. Yes, its naruto, but still. Just saying... and here's a video for proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJTSeEGUrjk -- Princeharris1993 01:12, November 25, 2014 (UTC) :Punches and kicks operate differently, it's a basic martial arts concept. Repeated punches are performed through the twisting of the waist and only require the upper body to push into the strike, allowing for consecutive motions by taking advantage of the built up momentum, while a kick (especially roundhouse and side kick, using the same leg) requires not only the turning of the waist but the body has to follow through with it. When all the body is put into the strike, each consecutive kick would be logically slower from the initial kick, not by a lot at first, but it would gradually decrease until the body finally arrives at rest. Perhaps the argument for repeated kicks by switching the leg each time can be made, but at the same time, it's still rather ridiculous. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 01:26, November 25, 2014 (UTC)